Code Geass R2 Episode 21 (Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter)

Like Lelouch in this episode I guess I have to accept a world with lies and deceit in order to acknowledge my humanity.  Looks like I’m going to have to be a liar and continue to blog Code Geass R2.

Thoughts:

First of all I’d like to start by saying that the whole Charles persona doesn’t seem so contradictory when you think about why he might be advocating Social Darwinism.  When you think about how he’s apparently given up on humanity and all that stuff I think he’s just encouraging their natural tendencies in a jaded sort of way.  It’s like, “Yeah, you want to lie, cheat, steal and kill each other for power, that’s what you are so I say you might as well do it”.  It’s not that he likes it, it’s that he knows it’s true so he’s just trying to add a little honesty to a world that’s in denial by spilling it out for people.  No use denying ones true nature is essentially what he’s been saying with his speeches.  Of course as we know he had his own plans.

As I suspected Marianne, V.V, C.C, and Charles had all made a pact together to bring about change, and I think originally this was supposed to be done by having Charles become the Emperor.  We saw the aftermath of this in episode 15.  However once Charles became Emperor he saw he had no more influence on the rest of the world then any other Emperor before him, he was powerless to change things as emperor so he became jaded.  He believed humanity was beyond redemption and like I said earlier continued to try and advocate the truth of human nature, that it was based on nothing but lies and deceit and survival of the fittest in the interests of pursuing power.  Quite Machiavellian, and you know I actually believe Machiavelli is right so I can identify with this.  Though of course he still planned to try and make a difference and this came about when he discovered the World of C and it’s power to manipulate the fabric of reality inside of it’s zone of effect.

Anyone ever read the book “Sphere”? I sort of get it now after watching the subbed episode a little more closely.  From what I can tell the World of C is like some sort of inbetween junction in the world of Code Geass (hence the whole Ragnarok Junction thing) where with a strong enough will thoughts can be made into reality in this zone.  Hence how Charles can talk to the dead like Clovis and how Marianne claims that Suzaku would have been able to talk to Euphemia if they joined them in the plan.  Charles was also doing it earlier in the episode with the whole Library and such.  I think the Geass comes from or is a part of this world, a connection to it’s capabilities via the untapped power of the unconcious mind.  That’s also how I think Marianne is able to exist in this world in her own body, despite being dead.  Once she makes contact with it from the outside in Anya’s body she is able to shape the moldable reality from inside that world to accept her existence in her old body.  And since she has that connection to the Geass she is able to now start influencing the make up of the World of C as well.  Anyone can do it once inside, but I think they have to have Geass to enter. 

The Sword of Akasha is probably supposed to be that vine thing and I think he was trying to use it to tie the unconcious malleable World of C to the real world and was planning to then change the real world from inside of the World of C by making that wish to what is known as god, but is probably just some sort of visual representation of the essence of the World of C to make it so people can no longer lie or deceive.  It even seems like they may have been planning to do this earlier because Marianne mentioned the existence of the Sword of Akasha in the 8 years ago flashback, not to mention they probably couldn’t succeed without two code bearers.  However, V.V got in the way when he killed Marianne, thus delaying their plans and forcing them to go to a plan b.  That started when Anya Earlstraim (a student living in the court as far as I can tell) was used as a second body by Marianne to keep her and Charles dream alive.  It also gave her the ability to talk with C.C through the subconcious, which we witness a lot in season 1.  It seems like C.C had abandoned their cause though by this point and left v.v in charge of the order.  So now C.C is out of the picture and so is Marianne for the time being, thus totally messing up Charles and V.V’s plans, but at least V.V has his brother back at this point if that’s all that mattered to him.

This also sheds some light on why Bartley claimed that Charles was looking for C.C and why he was trying to deliver her as a “prize” all the way back in episode 1.  She’s a part of the new plan or at the very least Marianne considered an ally still worth having and so did Charles, so he’s trying to get her back, and it seems like they caught up with her. That and he wanted to be the one to take her code as promised and activate ragnarok at the same time.  Of course Lelouch got in the way, which is one of the many instances of him getting in the way of their plans as the series goes on and I guess she decided he was going to be the new one to bring about her death. 

No wonder they wanted him out of the way early on though.  Even though Charles claims he wanted to hide him from V.V’s eyes, he’s also a bloody nuisance to their plans with far to much potential and a prying nose and the same went for Nunally.  If he started asking to many questions while in Britannia he probably would have learned the truth and been able to expose them to the court, and he had the will to do it.  So to Japan he goes killing two birds with one stone and Japan also seems to be one of the main gateways to World of C.  Also it seems like the sole reason for Charles conquering Japan and making it Area 11 was so that he could use it as one of the link up points for the Sword of Akasha once he eventually got around to using it and to track down C.C.

The whole bit where Charles talks about V.V lying to him again in episode 14 also has some light shed upon it.  As I always suspected that V.V had something to do with the death of Marianne (look at how he freaks out on Jeremiah when he mentions her name, like it’s some sort of curse word.  That should tell you what he thinks of her) I also suspsected that Charles knew what he did all along.  Why would he let him live up to that point then.  Well he was a) family, b) he was helpful in their plans and necessary for his code and c) why not.  That and his Geass probably wasn’t strong enough to kill him at that point anyway.  By the time it was though Charles took his code and let him die as the liar he was, feeling betrayed and such. 

Though in a way Marianne was also a liar as well and I don’t know why he associated with her or loved her.  She put on masks just the same as everyone else.  So did Charles when he did his speeches since he obviously despised that philosophy in the first place even though he knew it was reality.  So really none of them were any better then the people they sought to cast down to the level of treacherous vile humans and Lelouch points this out quite well in their dialogue.  Do they really have the right to be the ones to remove the worlds masks when they are no better human beings themselves for selling out even their own children?

Well they try to be the ones to do it anyway and it appears that when C.C enters the World of C it’s time to begin their plan, which requires 2 immortal codes.  From what I can tell the whole “sealing the code” thing that Marianne mentioned last episode didn’t mean that she tossed it away or sealed her immortality, but that she sealed away whatever aspect of it that Charles needed for the Ragnarok Junction and wouldn’t let him carry out the plan back in episode 15. Denied!  That part about merging two codes that Marianne mentioned in order for this to actually work.  A crisis of faith indeed, but it seems like Marianne talked her into it this episode at least as far as getting her up to the moment goes.  Yes Lelouch gets in the way.  I guess he realizes how much he’s become like his father and decides enough is enough and it’s time to put a stop to this.  He wants Nunally’s world and Suzaku wants Euphemia’s world (same deal basically), while Charles and Marianne are merely interested in themselves and the old adage about free will etc etc.  Yeah I agree it’s cliche as hell at this point in the episode, but take it as you will because it was a pretty interesting road getting to it even if it’s the same old debate in the end.  Hopefully Lelouch will finally just stick with it this time instead of letting other people like his parents lead him like he was being led all this time down the path of destruction.  Nunally’s World Get?!  Perhaps….but there’s a kink in this I’ll talk about later.

Anyway, I know this annoys people that Lelouch’s ideals keep flip flopping, but I say it makes him more realistic as opposed to less, same with Suzaku’s flip flopping.  In real life emotions get the best of people and they flip flop in their beliefs and have crisis of faith in reaction to traumatic events.  Hell, I flip flopped back and forth several times when it came to deciding whether I gave a shit about writing this article or not.  It’s just something that happens and no it’s not bad writing or inconsistant characterization, it’s human.  People do lie like Lelouch says, they deceive and they shuffle their views constantly, but it’s part of what makes us unique that we can do that.  Charles and Marianne want to take that away from us.  I propose the question, is that a good thing?  I don’t know myself, but it’s an interesting topic for debate for a show that many see as so shallow and it’s presented by this anime in a much more interesting light then most others have tried to when they bring up the topic of free will.

Anyway this seems to be the moment where they finally click with each other again instead of bitching at each other which will become important later in the episode.  C.C joins with him as well and this is how I think he is able to manipulate the World of C in order to get rid of Charles once and for all.  A combined will of the three people focused in resisting them influenced the thought elevator more then Charles could, and plus C.C backs out of the plan anyway it seems when she curls up into a ball telling Charles that the plan takes thing to far.  No C.C no plan.  And so the thought elevator/Sword of Akasha crumbles to the ground with the whole Ragnarok plan and Charles and Marianne are removed from existence by the world of C instead of what Charles had planned to do to the world.  Immortality means nothing in a world where thought can become reality after all.

Though there’s doubt left in whether Lelouch, C.C and Suzaku did the right thing, because Charles last words hint that Lelouch has handed the world to Schneizel’s ambitions, and whose to know what he has in mind.  Though as we see later on Lelouch has crowned himself emperor in Charles stead, and one would draw the hint that he is now going to try to use his position to try and do what Charles tried to but couldn’t.  He’s going to try and carry out Nunally and Euphemia’s will once and for all.  Yet there’s some foreshadowing again that Schneizel has something up his sleeve.  Also keep in mind that while Lelouch now has the authority of the emperor he has the sword of damocles hanging over his head.

I find this to be an incredibly interesting and fresh set up for a final battle scenario that defies all the cliches normally seen in anime.  Normally in a more typical anime the final battle would have been here with the underdog Lelouch beating Charles at the last second with the “power of wills” but it’s not.  Instead the series is going to end in an epilogue style format.  Lelouch is now so close to carrying out Nunally and Euphemia’s policies in Britannia and bringing about a new age and if he can resist Schneizel’s last gambit he will win.  How often do you see final battles where our “hero” has to hold onto power instead of trying to combat it to win.  That Code Geass is going to probably end with a Defend the Flag type scenario is something I could not have expected yet welcome as an interesting twist to the tropes of mecha genres and it’s something that makes the series unique as far as anime goes.  This is good writing, not bad writing.  Just because it’s not playing out like a typical good guy underdog versus the all powerful final boss scenario doesn’t mean the series is hosed beyond repair.

Anyway, for once the series is focused almost entirely on one single scenario in an episode, so I cannot entertain for a second the notion that the pacing was fucked up in this episode.  Though there was one side scene that I liked and that was the one scene of Nina reflecting over some of the dead bodies in the blast zone and Millay preparing to broadcast was I assume was going to be some sort of mourning ceremony.  People had complained that there were no reactions by the characters to this event, but when you see how it affected characters like Suzaku, Nina, Millay, Rivalz, Gino and The Order of The Black Knights I cannot help but disagree entirely.  There has been lots of reflection on the tragedy at Ground Zero.  This all ties into the final scenario in the episode and I remember saying to some people who were complaining about there not being any sort of public mourning that they were waiting for an end to the rebellion scenario and an end to hostilities before they would worry about any such thing.  That and they were probably waiting for a public authority figure to call for one.  Under the guise of Charles authority Lelouch sets this up and everybody gathers into the hall of Pendragon Palace for what they think will be an official mourning ceremony for those who died in the tragedy of the Fleia “accident”.  Of course it’s not, but there’s your attempted mourning scenario at the very least folks.  Patience is a virtue.  Britannia had patience to wait for a proper time to mourn, so I think we should have patience with the series when it comes to not demanding everything possible to resolve every lingering plotline needs to happen this second before we jump on the bad writing bandwagon and say the series is full of plotholes.

The way I see it we’ve closed up most of the storyline for the time being.  In fact this could perhaps be called the climax of the series and now it’s time to do like Lelouch, sit back and wait for Schneizel to make his final move.  Who will win in the end in the battle of wills.  Well I for one think it’s time for Lelouch to finally outwit his brother in something once and for all.  0-countless victories for Schneizel.  Let’s make it 1-countless victories for Schneizel and make it the one that matters.

By the way this episode Lelouch finally did what he failed to do against Schneizel when they played the chess game way back in episode 9.  He said screw the rules, accepted the lies and deceit and didn’t back down when it came time to stand face to face against the emperor in a scenario where both were in a position of checkmate in the world that would let them destroy one another with but a thought.  Charles put the world in check by stepping into check with Lelouch himself and Lelouch/Black King took Charles/White King.  Now let the final chess match begin…

Rating: 7.5/10

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50 Responses to “Code Geass R2 Episode 21 (Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter)”


  1. 1 Myssa Rei September 1, 2008 at 5:05 am

    I dunno, as much as I agree with some of your observations, I felt that the pacing was… Off? In any other series, the revelations regarding Marianne and the confrontation between Charles and Lelouch could have easily been spread across four or five episodes, if only to give the viewer time to digest the new information given to them (Yeah, I was a fan of LoGH and the Crest of the Stars style of exposition). Here were were given, what, two episodes, plus the primary plot between the Emperor and his rebellious son is resolved just like that?

  2. 2 Kaioshin Sama September 1, 2008 at 5:14 am

    Yes they do sort of overestimate both the average viewer willingness and ability to digest the information they are given. Especially since they leave a lot open to intepretation. I don’t think that’ bad writing though, I think it’s just expecting to much. Perhaps slightly lazy, but not bad as they know what they are doing well enough. The issue is not in the writing, but in the exposition style it seems and how well people are able to cope with it. That’s why I deny with a vengeance the whole bad writing critism, because it’s filing the grievance under the wrong category. This is simply a case of either you like the development or you don’t and not of writing. Why people can’t just say they don’t like the episode and move on I don’t know, but instead we have half the internet trying to dismantle the show now. I guess like I’ve said that’s there problem now, but I just wish for once I could see eye to eye with people.

    Anyway…the primary plot has been going for 45 episodes and this is just the climax of it. I wouldn’t say it was resolved just like that in one episode. The show has been leading to this point for a while, it’s just been a bit of a bumpy ride getting there because Charles plan kept getting messed up.

    How would others have had them resolve the Charles versus Lelouch storyline? Considering he was immortal, using the World of C’s reality warping powers to “dissapear” him seems to be the only way in which Lelouch was actually going to beat him, and this is the first time the opportunity has presented itself where he, Suzaku and C.C could join together to overcome his desires.

  3. 3 Question September 1, 2008 at 5:45 am

    What do you think Clovis was doing with C.C?

  4. 4 Kaioshin Sama September 1, 2008 at 5:51 am

    @Question: She wasn’t with him, she just got captured by Bartley’s men. I think he had orders to ship her back to the homeland so that Charles could carry out the Ragnarok plan.

  5. 5 Aabo0 September 1, 2008 at 6:09 am

    You know, this is one of the episodes actually exhibits the ” Byronic Hero” theme to it’s fullest with the flip-floping ideals and flaws that Lelouch holds.
    Although I don’t think the series’ ending is gonna be a happy one since all tales with a Byronic Hero are tragedies.
    I’m saying that if Lelouch wins against Schniezel he’ll be standing alone in the end burdened with grief and despair after having sacrificed everything, including his loved ones, in order to attain his goal.
    Of course, I’m not stereotyping. I’m just predicting where this is going from all the little details, overall theme, and feel of the series I’m getting… Its more of a gut feeling, though I’d like to be proven wrong.

  6. 6 fuka September 1, 2008 at 6:15 am

    Nice review. It is good that you decide to blog the rest of code geass R2. Most of the online blogs are simply screencaps and summary with a paragraph of what the bloggers think about the episode but yours actually include more indepth views of what you think about the series.

    Most of the internet communities think the pacing is too fast. However, as long as the staff leaves enough hints I don’t think being fast is a problem. It is better than Yang Wenli in LoGH which “all of a sudden” think of using chuck of ice at lightspeed to destroy the defense satellite. That is just one example of LoGH’s “super plot twist” just to show off how “cool” Yang Wenli is. (I never think highly of the military aspects of LoGH. I like LoGH because of the portrayal of characters)

    I have no problem about others trashing code geass, afterall that is their opinion and I respect that. What I despise are those who hold a double standard on reviewing. I have no problem with those who trash code geass if they also dislike LoGH, all gundam series, 12 kokuki, escaflowne etc etc and basically any anime/ shows which has a hint of military/ politics / fantasy element involved. But many out there who bash code geass also praise those series as either classics or their favorites which make little sense to me as I could pick apart those series easily just like how they pick apart code geass.

  7. 7 Kaioshin Sama September 1, 2008 at 6:35 am

    @Aabo0: Yes, but if there sacrifices aren’t in vain then it will make it somewhat worth it. I’m thinking that might be what Taniguchi means by a satisfactory end. That all of the people he loved have either died or abandoned him, but at least he gets to work in some new policies to make the world a bit of a better place. Cause let’s face it, on a scale of 1 to 10 Charles was about a -30 in quality of leadership. How do you progress as a nation with a leader who doesn’t care about the people and just wants to make everyone incapable of any ambition.

    @fuka: Yeah Yang is kind of the insta-win when it comes to tactics. Everything he does seems to work to easily.

    That’s actually been my biggest gripe for ages, the double standard. I hate it in life and I hate it just as much on the internet. How some can blast Code Geass for being ridiculous, incomprehensible, zany, deus ex machina, hard to follow, shallow, pandering, cliched, and over the top and then turn around and praise….say Haruhi or Slayers for the exact same thing speaks volumes about their credibility, biases and honesty. Charles would be most displeased.

    It’s still the poorly written one at the end of the day that gets me though because nobody ever offers what they would do differently and if they do it never sounds any better then the show we got so who are they to judge the quality of the writing. It’s just a whole lot of hot air being blown when people start acting like they are Ernest Hemingway or some sort of literature professor.

    Anyway, so I’m currently running an ask a question get an answer deal with Geass so if people want to ask me something about this episode or for me to clarify something since a lot of people seem to be having trouble making sense of it then go ahead. Like I’ve said I have no trouble following the series up to this point so if peoples want answers I’ll give them.

  8. 8 Myssa Rei September 1, 2008 at 6:50 am

    Well, I’d like to throw in a really out-there development that popped up in the series Kaio. Please explain the sudden transformation of Sayoko from low-key quiet caretaker of Nunnally to do-it all super Ninja Maid. 😛

  9. 9 FantomFang September 1, 2008 at 7:00 am

    Well, if thats the case, I do have a quick question.

    I’m not entirely sure, but did Odysseus’ comments near the end of the episode mean that Nunnaly was still alive, or have the simply found evidence of her death? I’m more inclined to believe the first one simply because that bomb doesn’t look like one that would leave behind traces.

  10. 10 Happy September 1, 2008 at 7:30 am

    I’ve read plenty of opinions about this episode on animesuki and a lot of other blogs that post up screencaps. This is by far the most intelligent review, ever. I couldn’t have asked for a better insight than this. I’m glad you didn’t jump on the bandwagon of “Code-Geass=Total-Fail” that was inspired by the last few episodes because I would have never seen the countless connections you talked about. [/end sucking up]

    Now that Suzaku is the Knight of Zero, it makes sense with his earlier revelation of doing what’s necessary to get results. And since he’s been Geassed by Lelouche already, he can always take him down if he goes too far without having to worry about being mind-controlled.

    I want to predict two theories that contradict each other. The writers of the show have the amazing ability to throw something out there that keeps me at the edges of my seat.

    Suzaku, Lelouche, and C.C. will die.
    It always ends up that whoever controls Geass dies. That feels like it’s one of the many underlying themes in the story. What better way to end the series than taking away the power of Geass from the world to free it from outside forces that cannot be properly controlled? As to Suzaku actually dying despite his “survive” geass, I’m thinking that Lelouch will have to die first before Suzaku does.

    OR The trio manages to live, but Lelouch becomes an immortal emperor when C.C. decides to pass on her code to him. Her words keep coming back to me about the power of Geass making the user live a life of loneliness. But I guess that doesn’t make much sense because you can’t have both, right?

    Either way, I feel that the ending won’t be a happy one only because if Tanaguichi isn’t happy, nobody will be. lol

    Bah. If you disagree, I don’t mind as long as you give reasons why.

  11. 11 fuka September 1, 2008 at 7:32 am

    Myassa Rei:
    If you watched the DVD special “Sayoko’s dairy 2” then it will make alot more sense that Sayoko IS a super ninja maid (She beat the whole BK (including Toudou and Kallen) through a series of games)

    The question it brings out though, is that should the director assume the audience will buy the DVD? Obviously the code geass staff is experimenting this concept (never done before, as far as I know) and the most obvious attempt is when orange-kun switch sides. It makes no sense at all unless you watched the picture drama.

  12. 12 Aabo0 September 1, 2008 at 7:40 am

    I can answer FantomFang’s;
    He meant when they found Nunally at the begining of the season after they thought that Lelouch and her were dead.

    Kaio, who do you think is gonna pilot the Lanceot Albion? I’m thinking Gino, since Lloyd isn’t gonna give it to Suzaku. Also, what about the thing at the end that said:
    “Schniezel will become Infinity and create the shiro no kishidan.” Is Schniezel gonna use the alias “Infinity” and create “The Order of the White Knights” ? If you don’t know waht I’m talking about it’s the last thing after the preview in the gg subs.

  13. 13 Kaioshin Sama September 1, 2008 at 8:07 am

    @Myssa Rei: I’d rather not, but yeah….Sayoko was kind of a crappy character. I’m glad she’s dead…but yeah, what Fuka said.

    @Fantom Fang: I believe he’s stating that he had a feeling Lelouch was alive when they found Nunally in Japan. When V.V brought her back to Pendragon I mean.

    @Happy: Thanks. I do what I can because I have to. It’s not just those who control Geass that die though, it’s those around them. Anyone who tries to get to close to it ends up experiencing misery.

    @Aabo: Well I can’t predict the future, but I think Suzaku is going to pilot it. And I don’t know anything about this Infinity thing with Schneizel. It could be a joke or it could not. God knows how much Koda loves that character and how much she likes to spin things with regard to the show. I’ll say it’s possible, but wait and see.

  14. 14 Happy September 1, 2008 at 8:15 am

    Oh, damn, I forgot to point out something. When they were in the world of C and Charles/Marianne disappeared, Lelouch asked if C.C. was going (by this I thought he meant was she going to die, too). Her answer also might hint that Lelouch will have a happy ending because she said that she should be smiling before she dies.

    And I’m still puzzled at how he could have Geass’d God/the gods or gained another Geass on his right eye. It makes it seem that he’s surpassed Charles without even using C.C. through his emotions. 😛 I don’t understand the connection between how C is the collective wills of humans and him being able to control it so easily when Charles basically has the same Geass powers he does and he couldn’t do what Lelouch did.

    Also, with Jeremiah’s Geass canceler still on the lose, I would not be surprised if he went against Lelouch. And that whole ending with Schneizelle (good lord, the spelling changes every time) just reminds me how eerily similar he is to Lelouch except with more experience. So, Sch. for the win?

  15. 15 Myssa Rei September 1, 2008 at 8:34 am

    fuka: That brings up an altogether different question. I could be the most thoughtful and intelligent watcher of the series, but if I am not able (whether financially or by dint of not having a local distributor) to watch the DVD extras and picture dramas, I would be left scratching my head at some of the developments in the series.

    To someone who hasn’t, oh, watched that little bit where Jeremiah and Viletta talk about his failure to protect Marianne, his eventual changing of sides would feel like it came from left field. Same goes with that bit with Sayoko you mentioned.

    If this is one big experiment, or just the publishers finding ways to get fans to buy their DVDs, well, it’s not working as intended.

  16. 16 Unentschieden September 1, 2008 at 10:25 am

    On the “drawn out epilouge” aspect, that was done in the Original MDF Macross.
    The main plot (Human-Zentradi War) is resolved ~3/4 into the series, the “Epilouge” is spend giving closure to the Love Triangle even though it was technically finished by the end of the war. A lot of series would have ended there.
    They fleshed out the setting, some action (Zentradi Rebels, Peace is never easy) and Generally great ending. My description doesn´t do it justice, you better look into it yourself.

    The world of C(ounsciousness) I´d interpret a bit differently. I think “Jupiter” refers to the common consciousness, a psychology Theory.
    Human children aren´t born with a distinction between “self” and “someone else” (that is why they think by covering their eyes that they can´t be seen for example)
    C.C.(the concept) argues that Humans actually share one subconscousness, and that there is a “artificial” distinction between what we think are individuals (in Evangelions it´s the A.T.Field)
    The emperor wanted to use the old devices known as “Thought Elevator”(he needs all of them to cover all mankind) to destroy this border of individuality. Notice how he starts the plan by destroying the “shrine”.
    Ragnarok Connection would be the forming of a Human Hivemind (but without everyone melting I think) – that is why Death is meaningless, why People wouldn´t be able to lie anymore etc…

    I don´t think that Lelouce is flip-flopping, his character developed, just like C.C.s(the person). Lelouche makes the same desicion Shinji back then did even though under different circumstances and different motivations. The significance in him becoming Emperor is a bit explained in the preview: He want´s to change the world “the proper way” like Euphie/Nunnally wanted, he clearly doesn´t do it for the Power. Charles failed/gave up at that point(at first he attemted to change the world as emperor), and tried to force his ideal upon the world via Ragnarok.

    C.C. definetly changed, partly due to Lelouches influence that is why she refused the connection in the end. That was a bit spoiled though when she refused the Emperor the first time.

  17. 17 Gideon September 1, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Hmmm, the World of C is kind of like the Warp of Warhammer 40k, only devoid of Chaos Gods. Instead we have ‘the will of mankind’ aka Jupiter. Meh. I prefer Slaanesh, but I suppose the god of desire is trademarked 😛

    Anywho, now armed with some understanding of the story, I find all of it a bit anti-climatic and…well…easy. I know the character been through hell and all, sure, but this final confrontation versus Charles didn’t require a lot of sacrifice. They do some talking. Lelouch geasses jupiter and we move on. At least that is how I experienced it. What I would like to have seen: Lelouch dies with the Emperor. C.C. informs Suzaku. Suzaku takes it upon himself to change the world for the better this time. Simply said of course.

    Now it is Schneizel’s turn to be the villain. I don’t find this conflict interesting.

    On the one hand we have Schneizel. All Schneizel did was protecting the empire in the real world, because the emperor didn’t want to be bothered by mundaine things. He probably doesn’t want Lelouch on the throne, because he fears another Geass-obsessed lunatic. Which I find totally understandable. On the other hand we have Lelouch, said Geass-obsessed lunatic. However, we know Lelouch will probably make a good emperor because we know what he has been through because of his geass. We know what he has lost etc. and how his character developed.

    Pitty Scheizel doesn’t know what we know. So Schneizel vs. Lelouch. Both characters aren’t really evil by Code Geass standards. Both have the best interest of the empire in mind, only Lelouch probably also cares about the greater world. And both have good reasons for wanting the throne.

    Who will win? I believe both of them deserve to win, and as such don’t care story-wise.

    NOW BRING ON THE ACTION!

  18. 18 Gsus September 1, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    “Thank you, to my father.

    Goodbye, to my mother.

    And to all the children, congratulations!”

    I knew something was strikingly familiar but then again, I see that in most post-EVA anime.

    Still ruminating about the symbolism of the various Code location on the user’s body. Charles’ hand (power, might, hands that shape, change, and mold), C.C.’s head (thought, intellect, consciousness), Lelouch’s eyes (observation, reality).
    You could even argue that it goes deeper than that: practice, normative reasoning and beliefs (Charles) vs. descriptive reasoning and beliefs (Lelouch), with the mind, thought (C.C.) being the key. Plato, Kant vs postmodernism.
    Any thoughts?

  19. 19 Kaioshin Sama September 1, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    @Gideon: Schneizel represents the ambition of man that Charles was trying to get rid of. I think Charles was expecting Schneizel to eventually do his little coup d’etat against him, which is why he didn’t seem shocked in the slighest when Suzaku came after him post Fleia rage and all. I don’t see the current situation as anti-climatic, but as the beginning of an epilogue. Lelouch’s quest and all of this before it while depressing is what brought him to this level to even have a powerful enough Geass to overcome Charles in the thought elevator so it wasn’t all for nothing per se. Now he’s sort of taken over Charles legacy and probably intends to start a world like he wanted for Nunally, the kind gentle world, but Charles warns that he has more or less left the world to people like Schneizel who seek power and the throne.

    Both Lelouch and Schneizel appear to have reasonable causes so I agree that neither can be considered evil as of yet. Now it just comes down to a battle of wills. Who is to say that Schneizel would be a better king then Charles? Will he just continue the cycle of usurption if he ends up on the throne? What goals does he have in mind for Britannia? I think that’s what we’ll have to see. Either way, his dialogue of confidence in how he just let Lelouch have everything in order to draw him out into the open again gives me the shivers and makes it look like his mask is coming off once and for all (Episode 23 has the title “The Mask of Schneizel” keep in mind), but like I said again we’ll see.

    Anyway, the world of C seems more like the zone of absolute fortune from Escaflowne by the way. The power to influence the will of others and make their honest intentions come to the surface in their actions versus turning everyone into pudding like we see in Evangelion. I don’t take the “everyone becoming one” thing literally, but see it more as that everyone will be forced to convey their honest intentions in this new world and eventually that will lead to all of humanity truly understanding one another instead of hiding behind metaphorical masks.

    In fact the whole scenario leading up to this feels kind of similar with the whole mega bomb dropping deal. Hopefully Lelouch and Suzaku don’t end up fighting each other for the hand of C.C or anything like that though.

  20. 20 Gideon September 1, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    @Kaoishin

    You make a good point that we don’t know what motivates Schneizel. I always assumed it was ‘for the good of the empire’ and ‘screw the rest of the world’. It would be refreshing if it turned out to be something more. Personally I hope both of them are unknowingly striving for the same goal (nunally and euphie world), but burn the world, and afterwards lament how foolish war is and that they should have spoken to each other before going to war. Tragic ending? Check! Moral of the story? Double check!

    It could happen! We know Schneizel talked to Euphie and Nunally multiple times of screen (eg: To Euphie when he departed Japan again in the first season. To Nunally when he convinced her to evacuate a few episodes back) So Schneizel might strive for the same goal, but is a bit more ruthless than even Lelouch (although even that is open for argument).

    I still think the World of C is The Warp of 40k. It would explain why nobody has had ‘the sex’ despite the constant tense sexually atmosphere, revealing clothes, life-and-death-situations, and hidden feelings left to grow and grow. Because do you know what happens to people who enjoy intercours to much in 40k? Slaanesh (god of desire) rips their souls out of their bodies and devours them!

    I really love the 40k universe 😛

  21. 21 Myssa Rei September 1, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    Gideon: Ignoring the narrative inconsistencies, of course, and oh boy, is 40k absolutely RIFE with them. 😛 I’m a follower of 40k as well (I have a Space Marine army, since I’m a beginner of sorts), but the literature lover in me prefers SOME consistency in what I read. It’s no wonder I like the Ciaphas Cain series rather than the expected Space Marine-ccentric novels.

    The comparison between the World of C and the Warp of 40k is pretty slim though. The Warp is the mirror of the collective subconscious of all the sentient races of the Milky Way, true, but it’s mostly the NEGATIVE aspects of emotion that hold sway there (anger, lust, decay, and change). There IS a reason why readers call it 40k’s “Hell”, after all.

  22. 22 Sol Falling September 2, 2008 at 4:57 am

    Just to clear something up. You seem to have interpreted Charle’s death in 21 to have been the result of the combined wills/thoughts of Suzaku/Lelouch/C.C. in the thought elevator, but you’re neglecting the explanation offered by the show itself. In fact, the desires/emotions/wills of C.C., Suzaku, and Lelouch had no direct connection with Charles’ death: he was absorbed into the World of C. as a result of Lelouch geassing ‘God’ (“don’t stop the tracks of time”). Since Charles, having surrendered his own geass, could not retaliate, he succumbed to the will of the World of C (as manipulated by Lelouch).

    Similarly, Marianne was absorbed because she shared Charle’s desire, and was thus surprised to see that C.C. did not go with them. That was the only relevance C.C.’s resistance had to the events in this episode (And, again similarly, Suzaku–if you ignore the bolstering effect his conversation had on Lelouch–was nearly as irrelevent as the Emperor suggested).

    Given how spotty your own interpretations of Code Geass can sometimes be, I find your zealous defense of it (being so arrogant as to offer an ‘explanation’ service for the show’s events, even) to be a bit repulsive. That’s about all I want to say about what I’ve seen in this blog entry.

  23. 23 Kaioshin Sama September 2, 2008 at 9:20 am

    @Gideon and Myssa: Warhammer 40K seems crazy popular lately from what I can tell. I know next to nothing about it, but hasn’t it been around for a while. Also isn’t it one of those tabletop RPG’s? I’m guessing there are novels on it or something?

    @Sol Falling: Well when he claims it’s not a command but a wish in response to Charles claim that he cannot use a Geass on “god” it kind of goes against the whole theory that he geassed it. That’s why I interpreted it as his will being the cause of Charles demise. Plus when you add in Taniguchi’s (or one of the staffs) claim that when together their is nothing that Lelouch and Suzaku cannot do it adds a bit of weight to the idea that it was them realizing that they needed to work together to stop Charles.

    Plus if he used a Geass on it then why isn’t there any effect? All that happened was that “Jupiter” lit up with a Geass symbol and the thought elevator crumbled down.

    Of course another interpretation might be that the collective unconcious resisted Charles new world when Lelouch asked it to because deep down humanity wanted to keep it’s masks. Who knows? That’s the beauty of this episode though, the multiple interpretations.

    I’d also hardly call arguing that the show isn’t a piece of crap trainwreck a zealous defence. It’s not like I’m going the complete opposite direction and saying it’s the closest thing to godliness or anything like that.

  24. 24 Gideon September 2, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Warhammer 40k is (mainly) a tabletop game. It is pretty old. There are some computergames (dawn of war being the most recent atm) and there are even some (a lot of) novels. But as Myssa Rei pointed out, they aren’t of the finest quality. Most of them are just horrible and I don’t read them either. It is just the idea of an universe where everyone is a bad guy that appeals to me 🙂 Example: even 40k’s so called good guys (Tau) don’t shy back from genocide, concentration camps and forced sterilization.

    As for the Geassing of Jupiter. Code Geass doesn’t really clarify what happened there. Personally I also think Lelouch was stronger in wanting the outcome he desired than Charles was. I imagine a strong will can be a powerful weapon in the world of thoughts. Suzaku being there supporting him probably worked wonders as well as we know Lelouch values Suzaku judgement. So Lelouch probably took (will-)strength from the fact that his best friend/enemy supported his choice. The scene may not be very clear cut, but it works for me.

    What bothered me though is how they managed to give Anya a place in the story. She suddenly happened to witness the death of Marianne (Who had a geass, which given her relation with C.C., wasn’t very suprising. I’ll give them that). There were no hints that Anya was connected to marianne this way before (apart from the odd flashbacks, which could have meant anything). No way that the writers thought of this explanation in season 1. If they had, they would have introduced Anya much earlier (season 1 early, when Marianne’s death still mattered) and they would have tied her into the story as a childhood friend of nunally (or something that places her on the scene). Season 2 still tries to do this with the photo of a young lelouch playing and which Anya can’t remember to have taken (Also very dumb: the emperor rewrites her memories but forgets to edit her photo-album?). Too late imo.

    That Anya and Nunally can’t remember anything because they were geassed is just a way to cover up all this bad writing. It really is.

    There is so much wrong about this explaination it is just hilarious.
    What was the emperor thinking! Putting the girl, who harbours the ‘soul’ of Marianne (which he absolutely needed for his ultimate plan to work), in the middle of countless wars 😛 I could go on and on….and I will! I am not sure about this, but did Nunally crawl under Marianne dead body? I can’t remember if Nunally was on the scene was V.V. pulled out his little (almost as big as himself) friend.

    The only way Anya can make up for this sillyness is to get together with Suzaku!

  25. 25 unentschieden September 2, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Nunally didn´t crawl under Mariannes body, she and Lelouche didn´t witness Mariannes Death – but V.V. Geassed them into thinking that or the emperor but I think it makes more sense if the geassing was done by V.V. especially since V.V. lied about Mariannes death – how could he have lied to Charles about that if Charles himself faked the witnesses?

    It contains a lot of shocking relevations that were skipped unfortunately – for example Marianne mentions talking to C.C. after her “death”. C.C. never told Lelouche about that. There was A LOT that would have changed if C.C. explained things to Lelouche.

    I´m certain though we will get a flashback next time to clean up a bit what happend during the Timeskip.

  26. 26 Kaioshin Sama September 2, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    @Gideon: Okay seriously what is with this bad writing stuff? Before I’m ever going to accept any of this “bad writing” stuff people go on and on about somebody is going to have to set a bar. What is good writing? If someone can tell me what good writing is and make it not just purely subjective then I might entertain it because I’ll have something to compare and contrast. Otherwise who are we to judge another’s creative standards. Considering that I think there are precious few anime that I would call up there in standards of excellence in writing I don’t see what makes Code Geass especially horrible. I just prefer not to worry.

    Really though, why does this bad writing issue only ever come up in relation to this show. It’s like everybody is just copying everyone else because it’s now “cool” to talk about the writing. Like if somebody calls the writing in Code Geass bad then they are “cool”. Any other show though? Who gives a fuck because it’s not a cool topic. Lame…..

    I’d like to see some of these people come up with a universe like Code Geass’ and a storyline and characters with as much of a hook as Code Geass has. Then maybe they can come back and start to criticize the writing like they are in any position too.

  27. 27 Anonymous September 2, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    Warhammer 40k is a tabletop turn-based tactical game. Although the tactics are a bit on the rough side I have to admit. If you’re a tactical man, go Warhammer Fantasy Battle or play something else like Flames of War or Diplomacy.

    Still the best thing to come out of Games Workshop was Necromunda.

    “I’d like to see some of these people come up with a universe like Code Geass’ and a storyline and characters with as much of a hook as Code Geass has. Then maybe they can come back and start to criticize the writing like they are in any position too.”

    Of course we can’t since it’s not our job to spend 5 years on a story. You could say the same for people criticizing a movie for being unfunny. We couldn’t write a joke funnier than that shit so we can’t criticize it?

  28. 28 Gideon September 2, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    Well of course calling something good or bad writing is subjective. I never try to claim otherwise. I would also be happy to review other animes were it not for the fact that I don’t really watch that much anime and therefor don’t comment on other anime series. I prefer to stick with the mangas on which they are based, but that is hardly an option for Code Geass and I don’t mind. Apart from Code Geass the only anime I watch is Xam’d. Which is just as enjoyable be it for different reasons. Looking forward to the new Gundam 00 though. I really enjoyed that show’s first season.

    But back to the point:

    What do I consider bad writing (with regards to the case at hand: Marianne assassination.

    First:

    I believe every story element should be properly foreshadowed. Readers or watchers should be able to beat the book/anime to the point and figure out who did the killing and why before it is revealed. So in case of this assassination, the killer (of course not as ‘the killer’) should be introduced early on when the search for said killer begins. V.V. is introduced at the end of season 1. Lelouch spend a whole season trying to find his mother’s killer, without the killer (V.V.) being introduced into the story. A whole season was waisted with regards to this plotline. It would have been much better if Charles, Schneizel or, best option yet, C.C. (the irony) did it.

    Good writing is when you give all the clues and yet no one (okay, almost no one) managed to get it right. Bad writing is when everyone manages to guess it. Horrible writing is when you give clues that make no sense or don’t contribute at all and still try to pass it off as logical. Notice I don’t believe that there is such a thing as normal writing 😛 No one could have guessed Anya witnessed Marianne’s death. No one could have guessed based on the events depicted in the anime that that a jealous VV would kill Marianne because she changed Charles. The reason people guessed it right is because it is a overused cliche. More importantly no one could have suspected VV because he wasn’t there to suspect for a greater part of the first season, when the assassination was a major plotline.

    Second:

    The writers went back on earlier made promises. It was established Nunally was blinded and crippled during the attack. You can’t convince me otherwise. The current explanation that Charles geassed everyone is just an excuse to go back on these promises. Nunally wasn’t even at the scene during the assassination apparently. The fact that she was and lived made her character. It was of the most important things that defined her. But the moment Nunally was dead, they…well..abused her character by stating everything we thought we knew about Nunally was a lie. I found it horrible writing.

    Another promise: There was a conspiracy that led to Marianne’s death and was responsible for the cover-up. VV killed her out of jealousy and Charles covered it up. Brilliant conspiracy. Cornelia and Jeremiah were in charge of Marianne’s guard. You tell me VV managed to order Cornelia to decrease the guard? We know that can’t be true since the first time Cornelia and VV met was when Cornelia threw a dagger into his head. BUT VV GEASSED EVERYONE (I assume) Well sure! Again, I find it a poor excuse. It is a deus ex machina.

    Nunally blinded and crippled because of assault? Turns out not so much. Big conspiracy? Nah. VV did it.

    And that is why I find it bad writing. IMO of course.

    I probably could go on, but it is getting late. I hope everyone will forgive if I don’t check for typing/spelling mistakes 😛

  29. 29 Kaioshin Sama September 2, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    #Gideon: Your foreshadowing for V.V being the killer of Marianne is seen in how he responded to her name being uttered by Jeremiah in episode 15 and his talk about how obsessed he was with his brother earlier on with Cornelia. How brotherly love is best kind of love or whatever he said. It was at that moment I knew he did it because he had gotten jealous of her. It was also at that moment that I started to suspect that Marianne was in on all there plans as why would she be there at the gathering between C.C, V.V and Charles if she wasn’t in some sort of scheme with them. Your foreshadowing that Anya has something to do with Lelouch’s past also comes in episode 09 when we see her pictures of Lelouch and doesn’t know why she has them. Also the Marianne hairstyle kind of seemed suspect as well.

    As for Nunally being blinded and crippled, all we had to trust was Lelouch’s own say on the matter. He was the one that talked about all the stuff that “happened” to them as children. Yes the writers probably didn’t know ahead of time how they were going to develop that whole element, but they work around the revelation that it was all a sham by having it be that Lelouch simply did not know the truth. I guess maybe Jeremiah should have used the Geass canceller on him then…..

    Anyway, Nunally’s tale isn’t over quite yet from what I’ve heard.

    As for the conspiracy, you don’t think the king and his brother working at the highest levels of government covering up the assasination of his wife is a conspiracy? I mean this goes beyond Watergate proportions. If this happened in real life…..and by the way, it was Marianne herself who ordered her guard decreased. I’m guessing it was one of the conditions of V.V calling her out to meet her late that knight since he has always been working under a veil of secrecy and couldn’t afford to be seen there. Plus who would have ever suspected that the Kings own brother would have killed his wife? Marianne? She seemed to arrogant to even suspect she could be killed judging by the fact that she had an escape option in her Geass. And she was right.

    “Well of course calling something good or bad writing is subjective. I never try to claim otherwise.”

    Well I can at least appreciate that much. I still say I have to disagree though.

  30. 30 ghostlightning September 3, 2008 at 3:17 am

    my waifu and i finally watched this episode last night and…

    we loved it.

    it’s good drama from what i believe is an important anime. i acknowledge that there are many things to question (others may go ahead and just complain), but to condemn this series AGAIN after this latest episode? i can’t disagree more.

    mind you we are watching r2 in between episodes of banner of the stars (2) and we find it just as entertaining and fulfilling (my wife likes geass more, but then again she’s into bishonen).

    geass was always going to be the pandering anime that did great. i love it because it doesn’t hide the pandering – it’s out for everyone to see. and the fact that there’s entertaining drama is just awesome.

  31. 31 Camario September 3, 2008 at 4:29 am

    Just addressing a few things…even if I do think that the plot could have used lots of streamlining.

    Gideon:

    “What was the emperor thinking! Putting the girl, who harbours the ’soul’ of Marianne (which he absolutely needed for his ultimate plan to work), in the middle of countless wars :P”

    It seems that the “soul” of Marianne can survive well enough without being inside a body, as long as it can “transfer” somewhere (like inside the Sword of Akasha, where it could hold a representation of her real form, whatever techno- or metaphysical babble is involved), so even Anya’s physical death wouldn’t automatically mean it’s game over for her “guest”.

    Also, Marianne herself was a KMF pilot while she was alive, in addition to everything else, so the dangers of warfare (in an obviously fictional world) would hardly be that much of a concern for her.

    “I believe every story element should be properly foreshadowed. Readers or watchers should be able to beat the book/anime to the point and figure out who did the killing and why before it is revealed.”

    Not to say that there’s no bad writing at all in any of Code Geass or R2, but…

    I understand your beliefs in general terms, and such demands do make for better written works overall, but I don’t share them all the time. There are other ways to consider something good or merely enjoyable, especially when we’re talking about TV scripts and not actual books.

    Plot twists that you can’t see coming can be used to varying degrees of effect and enjoyment as well, and Code Geass has done this since the beginning, R2 included but not limited to it. If that is at least partially intentional, how “bad” is it really when it fulfills its purpose? It depends.

    Sometimes the twists work, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they are foreshadowed and sometimes they are only explained after the fact and only up to a certain degree. Which does make me lose my patience every so often.

    Still, even though I don’t always agree with how, say, Kaioshin interprets things, I think many events make sense within the show’s universe and do follow some sort of internal/external logic, straightforward or cynical…even if they may objectively be junk under a far more realistic lens.

    That said, there is also the added element that there were some changes between seasons, even if we can’t determine all of them, and that may have led to certain inconsistencies. Say, Anya’s very existence is a good candidate for a possible retcon. Is that bad? On paper yes, but I thought the lack of foreshadowing and clues could be covered by the conspiratorial nature of the whole event, so it’s not a fatal flaw.

    “Good writing is when you give all the clues and yet no one (okay, almost no one) managed to get it right. Bad writing is when everyone manages to guess it. Horrible writing is when you give clues that make no sense or don’t contribute at all and still try to pass it off as logical.”

    The difference here is that others, me for example, don’t try to interpret and apply such categories in the same way as you do, nor even that methodically in the first place. Just as the opposite is also true, naturally, and others will share your views or at least your conclusions.

    “You tell me VV managed to order Cornelia to decrease the guard? ”

    Those were still Marianne’s own orders, actually, if you re-watch the latest episode. Not V.V.’s work.

  32. 32 Kaioshin Sama September 3, 2008 at 4:58 am

    @ghostlightning: Well I think what it is is that some people are so caught up in the current rush to condemn the storyline for each new development that they are no longer actually sitting down to think about whether they might actually work just fine. I guess they figure why should they when so many other people are caught up in the rush as well and will have their backs. It’s the old confidence in numbers thing.

  33. 33 Captian Yossarian September 3, 2008 at 10:44 am

    I think Gideon is onto something with his 40k theory. I would like add, though, a vision that was revealed me in the light of the immortal God-Emperor (who watches us always): that Charles is, in fact, nothing more than warp deranged Alpha plus psyker who has used his unholy power to ensnare the unwitting citizens of the hive world Geass IV into believing him to be the true Emperor and has created the illusion of “Code Geass” to keep the people unaware of his malevolent will and to please his master, Tzeentch (all the more reason to not let their souls be devoured by the competition). I propose a crusade should be mounted to rid the galaxy of this foul perversion. Whose with me!? DEATH TO THE HERETIC!

    40k dogma is much too fun.

    A little aside on the subject of 40k literature: a good rule of thumb. 95% of the time, if it’s not written by Dan Abnett, don’t even bother reading the back. If it is written by Dan Abnett, but if it doesn’t feature Gaunt or the Inqusition, put it aside. If it’s part of “The Saint” and doesn’t have the title “Straight Silver”, pick it up, but with the greatest reservation, because you won’t get the later books otherwise. If it has the title “First and Only” grab it and don’t look back, because truly “First and Only” is the greatest piece of trashy military science fiction ever written. If you think it might happen to be in the 5% of non-Abnett worth-it-at-all 40k lit, another simple test will suffice. If it features Caipahs Cain on the cover, its in. If it features the Last Chancers, it’s in if you *enjoyed* “The Dirty Dozen”. Anything else should be avoid with the strictest prejudice. These directives are classified magenta level. Anyone reading this with a security clearance of a lower grade, please, take yourself out back and dispose of your remains in a neat and timely fashion. Like damned proper guardsmen.

  34. 34 Aciel September 3, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Kaioshin, sorry for posting this here, but is there any way to contact you by mail? I searched for it but didn’t find.

  35. 35 Kaioshin Sama September 4, 2008 at 5:42 am

    Here’s a little bit more foreshadowing about Anya being Marianne in case people are still interested. When Anya is in Japan she seems to dote on Nunally way more then should be expected of her duties as a Knight of Rounds. She almost has a maternal instinct with her in how she rolls her around. There were so many clues to her being Marianne that I don’t understand how people can claim there was no foreshadowing.

    Rather I think people just take issue with this series daring to be so audacious much of the time with it’s plot developments. Reject it instantly without having to think about it. It is much easier that way after all. Me though, I guess I’m always looking for a good challenge and this series presents me with them just as much as it presents me with entertaining characters and storylines.

    @Aciel: There is, but I don’t know if I want to put it here. There are other ways to make contact though.

  36. 36 Myssa Rei September 4, 2008 at 7:49 am

    Captain Yossarian : Charles as an Alpha-Level? News to me. 😛 I’d prefer the Marines to stay out of this (anything with Titans is generally something to be directly avoided unless you ALSO had Titans on your side — preferably a few legios worth), but the capitol Pendragon seems a delicious target for a drop-pod assault combined with some deep-striking Terminators.

    Kidding aside, aye, anything with Ciaphas Cain HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! is WELL worth a read (even TV Tropes agrees), and some of Abnett’s work as well (Legion is nice for a non-Guard story).

  37. 37 Kaioshin Sama September 4, 2008 at 8:15 am

    @Myssa: Can I just nod my head in agreement and admit I’m more of a Shadowrun guy?

  38. 38 Myssa Rei September 4, 2008 at 8:23 am

    Nothing a visit to TV Tropes won’t enlighten you about Kaio. 😉

    Oh, new batch of spoilers up, as well as newsletter quotes. Looks like you’re nearly right about your Nunnally theory…

  39. 39 Kaioshin Sama September 4, 2008 at 8:52 am

    @Myssa: No clearly it is the space transfer theory that is the correct one. I mean so many people are saying it, how could they all be wrong? *strokes chin*

    That’s my favourite crazy theory of all time when it comes to watching anime though. It’s like starting from the resolution of Occam’s Razor and then working backwards. Either that or inductive reasoning gone horribly horribly wrong. We shall see….

  40. 40 Haesslich September 4, 2008 at 9:07 am

    I’m just trying to figure out how the proposed fight takes place, and whether this has anything to do with the Damocles that’s often talked about. Mind you, Nunnally IS Lulu’s big weakness, so Schneizei is busy capitalizing on all of his blind spots.

    For some reason, “MECHA-NUNNALLY” keeps coming to mind, though. Must be all that “Knightmare of Nunnally” that I marathoned.

  41. 41 Myssa Rei September 4, 2008 at 9:56 am

    How could you marathon Knightmare of Nunnally, Haess? It’s a comic, for Haruhi’s sake. I’d think the correct term is ‘binged’. 😛

  42. 42 Aciel September 4, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    @Kaioshin Sama

    Ah. How would I make contact with you then?

  43. 43 Kaioshin Sama September 4, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    @Haesslich: The Sword of Damocles is just a concept. The one Charles loathed whereby allowing a person to have the power of a king makes them the target of all those who seek power and actually makes them more vulnerable then if they had no power at all. It could be both a metaphorical and physical entity (like a weapon of some kind) but basically what Schneizel did in allowing Lelouch to become the Emperor was to place the Sword of Damocles over his head. That’s the most obvious reason for his confidence.

    Anyway, a friend and I mused that her wheelchair might actually be a pilder, but I doubt it. As for Knightmare of Nunally, it’s less interesting then I would have imagined it being. Probably because of the horrible artwork.

    @Aciel: I’ll contact you.

  44. 44 Haesslich September 5, 2008 at 12:26 am

    The Sword of Damocles is a parable, but I thought they’d also mentioned a Damocles project under Schneizei’s aegis… which, if it exists, could mean that Schneizei has a way of neutralizing Lulu’s overwhelming forces without having to pull a Deus Ex Geass or something. Nunnally would be one such psychological tactic, but given that he had more than one FLEIJA bomb, I’m wondering if the OP’s images of a spaceship(?) are related to this Damocles thing he mentioned as something other than the tale of how precarious leadership could be.

    And Knightmare of Nunnally is basically Mahou Shoujo with mecha. which is probably why I enjoyed seeing the changes, especially with the big reveal at the end of Volume 3. Especially since it’s NUNNALLY who gets the big trauma in that series, versus her somewhat more passive role in the main series up until her gaining Area Eleven to govern.

  45. 45 Yuki no Kurogane September 5, 2008 at 3:15 am

    Ok, might I be the only on this nuclear wasteland known as the blogosphere that actually loved this episode? Lol, actually, my friends and I did, and perhaps for the same reasons some hated it, or mocked it, whatever. I really can’t be asked to find out what endless bitching some people have succumbed to, with their brains gone to irredeemable hibernation mode.

    Firstly, I knew it! The whole Lelouch of the Rebellion thing was just a little chess play! The real stuff was about the Emperor’s plan to change the world (nice social Darwinian persona by the way). The end of this episode reminds of the end of so many shounen animes (s-CRY-ed springs to my mind), where lala, the world is saved, everything seems somewhat alright, but no, there remains some rivalry to be settled! Of course, instead of a major boxing match sliding into the ending credits we still have four episodes of delicious surprises and Schneizel’s schemes left.

    Secondly, my friends and I have actually done what I presume the viewers were supposed to do after this episode….we thought about it! I can understand that expecting an average viewer to comprehend the symbolism in this episode is pretty mean (and lazy), but I imagine a lot of the opinions on this episode must have been very black and white, no “buts” or “perhapses”, just, “WTF” and who knows what other obscenity ensued the wake of this episode. I, for one, enjoyed picking out the symbolism and applaud the writers for this rather bold approach. Whatever they are smoking is definitely more effective than Gonzo’s crack! (lol, joking)

    Now let’s see, what do we have here:

    1. Jupiter is humanity’s collective consciousness! You know, I can’t help but think that this might just be a middle finger pointed at us viewers. It seems like the writers are telling us, “Hey, you lot, since you have such a memetic way of thinking, let us give you the symbolic meme of all time!” The collective consciousness (I am not sure that that was its exact name, but I prefer my version nonetheless) is pretty much an amalgam of the human psyche, and I dare say also the origin of things like culture and politics etc. It’s probably about as far as writers are allowed to tread the tempestuous, shark-infested (the sharks being ignorant viewers) waters of symbolism (and with this, the director might just have exceeded Neon Genesis Evangelion’s craziness). If we think about it, on a theological level, this collective consciousness is pretty much a God to us, for it is the origin of mankind’s decisions, one of the faultiest ones being war.

    I found it interesting that though the Emperor clearly shunned war (while his persona advocates it), his focus was mainly on getting rid of “lies”. It probably reflects on the inner child within him, since he lost his mother at a young age and since then had made up his mind to create a world without lies. I think it’s a rather curious ambition, clearly not villainous in nature, though we have thought of him as the villain for 90 percent of the series. We are made clear that villain is humanity itself and on a deeper level, humanity’s collective consciousness.

    2. Lelouch geassing Jupiter! Ha, the Storm Eye metaphor was so rascally clever. I hope all the other viewers have picked up what the writers meant with that scene (Jupiter having a kind of eye), though I wouldn’t expect them too….

    3. Slay the Gods. Well, I pretty much already discussed that part, but I think it is important to note the use of the word “slay” or “kill”, which has a pretty ambiguous meaning if you take into account the fact that the Emperor was more or less trying to change the collective consciousness, not destroy it. It appears he might have been trying to slay the “Gods” that govern humanity’s lies and deceit. Perhaps this might have been a blasphemous ambition in nature and the world that he might have created would probably not have had religion anymore, no uncertainties, not even agnosticism, but just the ultimate truth.

    4. Stopping Time. I am not sure whether Eclipse’s translation was off, but this really threw me off guard. I am still not exactly sure if they meant to say that that new world Charles was trying to create would be so “messed up” that time itself had stopped. It seems that this new world would have rewritten the Laws of Reality itself since Marianne mentioned something about her being able to bring Euphemia back (shudders at the thought of clamours of “Sunrise and the Ultimate Reversal Button”)

    There were some other things, but these were really minor and heavily up to interpretation. In conclusion, this episode was pretty interesting (in a very non-conventional way; I like non-conventional, that’s probably why I got into Geass in the first place) and though there is this one nagging inconsistency (how exactly did Suzaku get into the World of C as well?) and some unanswered questions (why are two Codes necessary to activate the Sword of Akasha), I really enjoyed this episode for what it was: A wild, symbolic experiment. The whole of Code Geass might just be an experiment, which is why so many people are feeling so bitter towards it. I am not really the kind of fan that gets all personal and stuff (using the term “Sunrise” with almost derogative casualness, as if addressing a class mate) and so when I have a problem with an anime, I will try to found out why and discuss this with someone. It’s really exhausting and less enlightening to churn out endless posts of, “OMG, this is crap”, “WTF” and “Sunrise being Sunrise”.

    I have also noted the fact that you are considering withdrawing from the blogosphere, Kaioshin-sama. I, like the rest of your readership, would whole-heartedly disagree with that decision. There seems to be a lot of trolling and senseless stupidity going on, but this just reinforces the fact that the internet is a kind of liberty, open to all opinions and vices too, unfortunately. By staying away from blogging you are pretty much becoming a victim of what I mentioned some time before: “A freedom of speech so virulent in nature that it actually oppresses somebody else’s freedom of speech.” This might sound very melodramatic, but hey, doesn’t this all boil down to cyber-bullying?

    I am gonna give you a big dose of reality and tell you that in months, even in years to come, your opinions will still not matter to some people. They won’t accept it, won’t argue against it. They will just bash you. So playing the missionary of “good blogging” will just get you into more trouble. Just stay within your circles, venture a few occasions into the liar of the meme-preachers, but withdraw when you know it’s just going to be a waste of time. It’s not that difficult really, trying to ignore what stupidity goes on out there and talking to people that will actually give you valid reasons for disliking a certain anime. It reminds me of a German saying, “Was ich nicht weiss, macht mich nicht heiss”, which literally means, “What I don’t know, doesn’t make me hot”. So, what I don’t know won’t bother me. Maintain that as a kind of rule of thumb and you will survive the carnage that will almost certainly go hand in hand with the second season of Gundam 00.

    *Phew* Excuse my rambling, lol!

  46. 46 Kaioshin Sama September 5, 2008 at 5:12 am

    @Yuki no Kurogane: I like the cut of your jib, but would just like to touch on a few points you made.

    1. Looking at Charles indeed I find it difficult to support the claim that this show has descended into black and white portrayal’s. For one his motives aren’t necessarily evil and for another the result he’s aiming for isn’t necessarily the best option. Brings us back to what Suzaku said about the result being what matters. In this case you can also find reason for his sudden change of heart to work for Lelouch because this result is not the world that Euphemia had in mind and as her knight he still feels a duty to see that world become a reality. That and he FINALLY figured out that Lelouch is working for the world Euphemia had in mind.

    2. Charles talks about lies and how they are an inherent evil to him. Suzaku on the other hand mentioned to Lelouch in episode 17 that Lelouch is a liar, but that he believes that those lies can be used for good as well as evil. How that will come about I think might get explained in the four episodes.

    3. She didn’t say that Euphemia would come back, but that she’d let him see Euphemia. That could mean anything as simple as letting him speak to her via the World of C as a memory. There’s not real mention of ressurection.

    4.Suzaku was brought in along with C.C as a guest I believe. Interesting that we have seen his connection to the Geass storyline that people point to that godawful taken out of context interview as claiming it will never happen. No you people, that’s just Celiss Galvea worrying it might not happen. Arggh…people are so…..well anyway that’s why I hardly entertain half the blogospheres “opinions” on Code Geass anymore, because they are bloody useless to me in every conceivable way when it comes to understanding the show. As the X-Files tagline goes, they like to deceive, inveigle and obfuscate.

    Anyway, we’ve seen Suzaku’s connection to the Geass many times. We’ve seen it in Euphemia’s death being a result of it, we’ve seen it in his live Geass being the instrument of his torture, we’ve seen it in how he couldn’t escape it’s lure right up until this final climax with it’s very essecence when he stood by Lelouch’s side, guarding him from Marianne’s advance at the crucial showdown between his and Charles struggle for control over the Sword of Akasha. Suzaku’s connection to the Geass has been here the whole time, it’s just people haven’t realized it because Celiss Galvea didn’t realize it and they still confuse her words for Taniguchi’s in that “interview” as saying it didn’t/won’t happen(read: Celiss Galvea’s thoughts on an interview).

    5. Yeah Sunrise’s name is definitely held in the bizzarest of contempt by the blogosphere. It’s like a fuck you to the company for providing them with a show meant for entertainment. Like I’d understand if the company killed their parents and skinned their pets but I mean really….Well they really don’t know much about the company anyway so who cares what they have to say. Considering much of the blogosphere only has three things to say on the topic of Code Geass anyway and you’ve already mentioned them.

    6. By saying I’m withdrawing from the blogosphere it means I’m mostly just tired of all the negativity, bullshit and trolling that seems to dominate it nowadays. In a word I have no desire to associate with any of them because I consider them to no longer be worth my time to entertain nor do I find my time worth spent reading what they have to say, considering most of it is the same old now. I’m not going to give up blogging anytime soon, I’ll just be doing it as independtly as possible, the reason for which blogging was invented.

    The way I see it the blogosphere (not just anime blogging) has slowly become indistinguishable from the mainstream media that it was created to hold in check. In short it is no longer a case of several people sitting at home writing their own independent thoughts and opinions for people to read. The blogosphere is now a valid counterculture viewed in the same respect as the classic media. They are no better or worse and I guess that goes for me too. They (we I suppose) get special seating and pampering at political events just like the regular press, they are courted by campaigning politicians and they have given into their own egos and desire to be viewed as in with the crowd.

    To quote from one of my all time favourite political commentary novels:

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    -Orwell, George. 1945. Animal Farm, Chapter X. London: Secker and Warburg

    So basically I’m scaling back a bit and trying to move in a new direction independent from your average anime blogger here. Your ideals seem to be the same as mine it would seem.

    7. Remember my theory about Charles goal to being the destruction of religion or a way of life. Well I got that right. I don’t fucking believe it! Haha! I forget all about that post but here it is. I’m also startled about how I managed to have quite a few hits in with the misses I had in that article as well. Here it is for reference.

    https://animehistory.wordpress.com/2008/07/17/goro-id-like-to-solve-the-puzzle-my-code-geass-plot-speculation-theory/

  47. 47 Daemon September 6, 2008 at 3:35 am

    The biggest problem I have with ep 21 is that Charle’s plan is revealed to be…. a ripoff of Gendo Ikari’s plan in Evangelion. “Eliminate all the seperation between people, and suddently everyone will be happy, and I can spend forever with my dead wife.”

    ———

    Ok, for the record, unless the subs I was reading were entirely off, the World of C is basically a mashup of Carl Jung’s collective unconsciousness and traditional hindu mysticism.

    Deep down, all minds are actually one vast whole, the same, connected. This is way under the conscious level. Jung basicly puts it as where dreams come from, etc (though he probably meant it mostly metaphorically). In hindu mystecism, it’s brahma – the consciousness of reality itself.

    I’m not going into it because, honestly, I could write a term paper on this… and someday I just might.

  48. 48 Kaioshin Sama September 6, 2008 at 4:11 am

    @Daemon: It’s really not though. It’s so much more like Issac Dornkirk’s Zone of Absolute Fortune from Escaflowne. The concept that Charles spoke of sounds nothing like the Human Instrumentality project. It’s just that because of Evangelion’s popularity every plan that involves directing the course of humanities future in an anime ends up getting compared to it. For the record.

    Charles goal was not to remove the seperation from everybody in the sense that they become one being, but to remove the masks from the people of the world that allow them to lie to and deceive one another. To let their true intentions come to the surface.

  49. 49 BetterAloneFor7Years September 27, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Hello, huys, nice to meet you! Please explain me how to get to Zagreb back, I’m lost 😉


  1. 1 (Anime - TV) Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch R2 21 - Metareview | Minimum Tempo Trackback on September 2, 2008 at 9:14 am

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