Predictions For The Final Episode Of Gundam 00

Ribbons will die, Patrick will turn out to be alive, the current conflict will come to a close and /m/ and the /m/ extension blogs will bitch excessively.  Also maybe aliens.  That is all….now have a drink, prepare for the best worst ending to the best worst anime ever made and enjoy the forum fireworks wherever you may choose to stake your claim.  SORE DE WA! GUNDAM FAN FIGHTERS READY……GO!


41 Responses to “Predictions For The Final Episode Of Gundam 00”

  1. 1 Q March 29, 2009 at 8:55 am

    lol I agree with the fact that there are so many forums and blogs out there that can manage to find whatever creative thoughts they have to bash on the series. It’s not a bad Gundam series, and not the best one either, but I’m surprised how much bashing they can do on it as if it really is the worst.

    Well, now we will have a movie in 2010. Will it be a new sequel or a compilation movie you think?

  2. 2 Kaioshin Sama March 29, 2009 at 9:39 am

    OMG….I think Gundam 00 may have made it beyond the whole Sunrise trainwreck meme as far as the people that actually matter and gave it a fair chance go. Utterly fascinating. Well outside of the impossibly whiny /m/ that is. Well anyway ….I expect the folks at the VERY anti-Gundam 00 T.H.A.T animeblog to hate and bash the living hell out it as usual so again I am predicting a net zero change in the way people who have been following it since day 1 view Gundam 00. In closing….what else is new?

    Also apparently the movie rumours are true and the Gundam 00 story is yet to finish. Couldn’t be much happier myself. Will probably blog the finale in the coming week.

  3. 3 Haesslich March 29, 2009 at 9:58 am

    And in other news, Sunrise has made some fanart quite official…

  4. 4 Kaioshin Sama March 29, 2009 at 10:19 am

    @Haesslich: Do share. I haven’t really been keeping track of fanart.

  5. 5 keikakuisplan March 29, 2009 at 10:46 am

    “the whole Sunrise trainwreck meme”

    Excuse me but do you not understand where the term trainwreck came from? I’ve read a good portion of your blog archive recently and you seem to have a basic misunderstanding of what it means.

    Trainwreck has ALWAYS been used to refer to something that you cannot look away from (just like when driving past an actual trainwreck it’s hard to look away), it does not mean ANYTHING about the quality. Someone saying a show is a trainwreck does not mean that they think it is bad, they just mean that the plot elements have come together in a way they cannot look away from. You seem to be under the sadly mistaken belief that “Trainwreck” = “I do not like this show”

    00 was a trainwreck, I genuinely could not stop watching it when it aired. I also loved the show.

  6. 6 Duo Maxwell March 29, 2009 at 2:57 pm


    “the whole Sunrise trainwreck meme” doesn’t start from Kaioshin, and I believe it doesn’t hold the meaning you mention at this time anymore. No matter what you said, I’m not convinced a certain DG86 come to the forum to shout out “trainwreck” each week to show his love to Gundam 00.

  7. 7 Haesslich March 29, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Look for the wedding in the aftermath. I recall fanart like it a year ago, ever since Patrick’s likes were revealed. Also, I’d have to say that Crusader isn’t anti-Gundam, but more down on the recent series where the plot gave way to the need to pimp models to sell, or where there are cases of deliberate executive meddling – the way the original cast of Destiny (and particularly Shinn) got shoved aside in favour of Kira after a point. The rumours that this occured due to Shinn’s seiyu supporting a friend in an arguement with Fukuda didn’t help this idea. Especially with how his wife was the executive writer for the series, and the plot points (and early director statements) which suggested that Shinn was supposed to have the role ultimately filled by Athrun and Kira by series’ end.

    Personally, I’m disappointed that there wasn’t more politics involved – it initially looked like there’d be more political mechanitions before everything was revealed to be run by Ribbons and the Innovators.

  8. 8 Kurogane March 29, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Oh lol. So even you agree the ending isn’t up to par. Well OK LOL.

  9. 9 Kaioshin Sama March 29, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    @keikakuisplan: What you have there is the original non-internet definition of “train wreck”. “Trainwreck” as used on the internet means whatever the fuck a person wants it to mean.

    @Haesslich: Who said I was referring to Crusader specifically? Crusader I know wants more real robot action and less idealism from his mecha shows… what we get from MS Igloo 2. He’s very set in his ways and it colours his views on anime in general in a very obvious way, but yeah, I was referring more to some of the commenters that gather there and only there. They just seem so……miserable, like they are just there to hate on the show and nothing else. It all makes the T.H.A.T coverage of Gundam 00 seem very lopsidedly anti from my perspective. Anyway how come every time we talk about GSD you’ve got some new and very plausible sounding rumour that I never heard of before you brought it up? Where’s your source?

    Anyway if there’s been any executive meddling in 00 then I haven’t heard about it, but I’ve heard the stories of how Fukuda gave his wife a ton of leeway with her scripts and being late with them and how they basically hijacked GSD and made it into the much agreed upon worst Gundam series ever singlehandedly.

    As for the politics….I can’t think of an anime series that I’ve seen that has really handedled the concept exceptionally well besides Legend of The Galactica. Though I would agree that Ribbons hijacked the politics of the Gundam 00 world on both sides of the fourth wall at the end of season 1.

    Hmmmmm…..well luckily I decided to play it smart and hold off on the Battlestar Galactica Finale until I’d watched this otherwise it probably would have ended up looking like garbage by comparison.

    @Kurogane: If you are referring to my “best worst ending ever” comment then that was actually written before the episode even aired to poke fun at how the ending was guaranteed to inspire mass overreaction as to it’s supposed uber quality or extreme lack thereof (especially on /m/ and the blogosphere), but not much inbetween besides me sitting back and laughing at it all while occassionally getting involved for kicks like I have been during the final episodes. In short, Gundam 00 starts more fights then Michael Buffer and it’s frakking hilarious.

    You know what, I think I’m just going to leave things as is with Gundam 00 so that people will never actually know what I really think about it overall. It’s more fun that way and besides Sunrise didn’t feel the need to close this chapter off so why should I?

    P.S: Your blog post is like the realization of my vision of Gundam 00 as being the best worst show ever to irate fans on the blogosphere. I actually do mean it when I say it made me lol.

  10. 10 deathkillz March 30, 2009 at 2:51 am

    Just watched the final episode and I have to say; it was just great 😀 (and no, I won’t be down playing those feelings for anything).
    Granted that the ending clash was as cheesy as heck and the sudden appearance of miss air (aka Marina), I still loved the way the whole series ended…or not since there will be a movie coming later but hey, why stop the ball from rolling eh? ^^’

  11. 11 Haesslich March 30, 2009 at 3:19 am

    Kaoishin: The executive meddling I’m talking about comes from the Gundam SEED Destiny days, or maybe Code Geass S2, depending on who you talk to. It still seems a lot of the shows they’ve done recently (Gundam’s certainly a repeat offender, but not the only one) have existed to sell the toys, with the plot being a distant second as far as the effort being put into each section of the series goes; the designs tend to be rather distinctive, and look good both on paper and on the display shelf… but at the same time, I can’t help but wish they’d put more effort into the story as something that was consistent AND entertaining.

    MS Igloo is decent to watch, especially with how we had the turn of the original war happening on the ground… or how we had the Federation on the defensive, running tanks against the up-until-then invincible Mobile Suits deployed by Zeon. The early parts of 00 promised to be quite different from the CE series in terms of how they handled the story, especially with the near-future premise of an oil-driven economy having been replaced by the solar furnaces and the initial three-way wars between various factions being meddled with by an independent third party. If they’d had more of the politicking and less of the grand conspiracy making the plot go, I’d have been ecstatic… but as it is, I began to lose interest in the show sometime after ep 20, IIRC, to the point where I end up forcing myself to watch it. Which, come to think about it, reminds me of Minami-ke Okaeri – I watch it because I like the franchise as a whole, even if recent attempts at executing it have been less than stellar (and at times, less than entertaining).

    I guess it comes down to what you want out of your Gundam shows – if you want a soap opera-style emotional ride, then 00 and 00 S2 were quite successful at that. If you wanted them to tell a ‘war story’… then it was less successful, ditto if you wanted a smarter political drama, even if those are few and far between. If you want explosions, this and Code Geass had them in plenty.

    But man, Katie made a LOVELY bride. Just lovely – that lucky bastard. He got the girl AND survived the series, even though I was hoping he’d stay dead for once.

  12. 12 Kaioshin Sama March 30, 2009 at 4:08 am

    You know on some levels I kind of take back what I said about the fan fighting. I think……no I am definitely happy to see so many Gundam fans sharing in a moment of at least minor appreciation of the franchise once again.

    This is a relief after the episodes of Gundam Seed Destiny and Code Geass R2 and I may be premature in saying this, but I think that the ghost of Gundam Seed Destiny may have finally been put to rest. Time will tell, but I’ve been waiting for this moment for over 5 years now and it’s finally here in an episode called “Rebirth”. Rebirth in the Gundam fanbase’s faith in the franchise to be if not the hallmark of anime it was in the 80’s, at least good enough to pass the time with rather than just a punching bag?

    Hmmm….indeed looking at the final reaction to this show I can say that there is a distinct lack of the kind of widespread meltdowns that permeated the end of Code Geass R2 and Gundam Seed Destiny. Thanks for holding it together folks. No seriously, I can dig it since I don’t do to well with the listening when people get all emotional on me over television programs en masse. :/

    @Deathie: Glad you enjoyed it.

    @Haesslich: I get a kick out of reading your Minami-Ke posts primarily for how they always seem to get the series die hard fans so up in arms despite how even handed they come across to me. It just looks honest to me, and there’s something to be said for a blog writer who can still put hand to keyboard when critiquing a show without giving the impression that he also wants to put fist to monitor and like it’s a predetermined position.

    Honestly, I can see right through people who I know are writing from a predetermined position on a show and it just ruins the whole experience of reading it. Sincerity with a hint of good humour and a dash of restraint behind it, those are the kind of critical perspective anime bloggings I prefer to spend my time reading and taking seriously. Pointless RAEGing and/or one-sided praising or bashing….not so much. Hopefully once people realize that they are in fact not George Carlin the RAEGHAET trend will subside.

    Hmmm… where the heck is ghostlightning?

  13. 13 Haesslich March 30, 2009 at 5:05 am

    I suspect the reason there’s less meltdowns are because not all the characters are unlikeable (unlike SEED Destiny), the battles weren’t as severely one-sided as they were in SEED Destiny, and the end results weren’t as boring as SEED Destiny… nor were the viewers drowned in ‘angst, angst, oh woe is woeful me’. They even had a fairly normal person (Patrick) not only survive the whole show despite wearing a red shirt from day one, but they even let him get the girl… who wasn’t neurotic, who was successful in her own career, and who made a lovely bride without needing to cling needily to the hubby.

  14. 14 Myssa Rei March 30, 2009 at 7:48 am

    Haesslich: Now now Haess, we both know that Patrick was wearing a Mauve Shirt for most of the first season, before the (justly-given) fanlove elevated his status.

    As for Gundam 00, well, the show like previous shows in the franchise promising in idea but flawed in ultimate execution, only making real sense to people who frankly pay attention (and have access to the supplementary materials), while inducing either knee-jerk RAGE in many, while causing headscratching in others due to the lack of access TO the supplementary materials.

    Also, it suffers from rather high expectations from people who obviously will never be pleased because of their own personal biases. The watcher who expects proper political intrigue finds it falls flat on its face; the historical war buff will find the battles nonsensical, and the tactics used illogical; the disgruntled franchise fan who still has some bad taste in their mouths left over from Destiny and wishing for a return to a perceived form (SERIOUSLY?); and the shippers, well, you know…

  15. 15 Kaioshin Sama March 30, 2009 at 8:56 am

    @Myssa Rei: Yeah pretty much actually….

  16. 16 Myssa Rei March 30, 2009 at 10:57 am

    To give an example as to head scratching… Since I don’t have access to the 00P/00F sidestories, I didn’t know what to make of all the Innovades in the crowds during the epilogue (I spotted an Anew terminal in the UN meeting, and a Healing terminal in that shot with Marina, and other viewers spotted much more) until someone told me that Veda had been seeding the world with them prior to S1, info ONLY found in said supplementary material.

    It’s like watching the CLANNAD ~ After Story up to its ending without having played through ALL the game paths AND getting the True End: you’ll have to make do with the VERY vague hints scattered through the 50+ episodes to avoid calling the writers ‘cheaters!’ at the end.

  17. 17 Kaioshin Sama March 30, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    @Myssa Rei: Yeah except the impression I’m getting from most people’s reaction to Clannad is that it’s all perfectly okay the way they chose to end it, but with Gundam it’s a huge problem. Then again I’ve found that Clannad/KeyAni fans are almost impossible to displease where as Gundam and mecha fans in general are really easy to piss off and you could mostly chalk it up to differences in preferences and willingness to criticize between the two fandoms.

    It’s when the fandoms cross with certain reviewers though that I find we run into problems of clear preference in willingness to condemn one series and pardon another for what are basically the same transgressions. This doesn’t happen too often though thankfully.

  18. 18 Myssa Rei March 30, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    Granted, the CLANNAD game itself is more accessible (barely a download or torrent actually) than some of the Gundam 00 sidestory supplements, which are doubly hard for the Western fandom since they’re in Japanese and in print form (which means they have to be scanned to be even accessed).

  19. 19 Haesslich March 31, 2009 at 2:15 am

    CLANNAD also had the advantage of being set in a world in which magic is a functional part of reality… which meant the weirdness of the Dream World made much more sense, after you found out about it. Gundam, on the other hand, makes it a TAD harder to believe things work the way they do… on top of you needing to get four or five various pieces of merchandise to make sense of the story as-is. At least CLANNAD’s story was self-contained in the two games; if you had those, you knew everything KyoAni was throwing at you.

    Gundam, on the other hand, gets more confusing with each iteration as the Gods of Marketing decide to add ‘value’ to the merchandise by tying in so many side-stories that anyone with access only to the main plot’s completely left out – imagine the rage Star Wars or Star Trek nerds would vent if, in order to understand what was going on in a new Star Trek/Star Wars entry, they’d have to watch the movie along with buying the tie-in novel and THEN play the online MMOG which costs $20 a month along with buying the whole run of a limited comic mini-series ALONG with subscribing to an official magazine…. and then having to go to forums to get the remaining missing bits of lore, just so the plot of the movie makes sense. Especially if they didn’t make any references to the events in the other mediums, expecting you to just ‘know’ all this.

    Kira’s survival in SEED after Strike blew up, and how he ended up in the blind man’s care is a complete mystery unless you read the side-story in Astray which explains that Junk Guild pilot found his unconscious body on a beach and then dumped him in the other guy’s care.

  20. 20 Kaioshin Sama March 31, 2009 at 6:35 am

    @Myssa Rei: ….The same can be said for the Gundam 00F Manga. Less bitage overall too.

    @Haesslich: How does the saying go, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”.

    Not that I am adovcating the marketing motivated interests of Gundam 00/Bandai/Kadokawa/ (funny that both Sunrise and Kyoani have the same publishing partner now that I think of it) or anything, but in the end it seems like the same deal to me. Play the game or watch the manga, only then will you truly understand.

    Hmmmmm…..I sense you are trying to play devil’s advocate just the same, but see the above. If you have the Gundam 00P/F Manga you know everything that Sunrise/Kadokawa is throwing at you, likewise if you have the Clannad game installed you know what KeyAni is throwing at you. Same deal in the end. Anyway, what’s this about having to go to the forums to get missing lore and playing MMORPG’s now?

    As for Astray vs. 00F/00P, I would say the former is far greater required to understand the plot of the former then the latter. 00F/00P is more of a supplement, whereas Astray’s crossover portions come across as a fix for Fukuda’s legit plot holes. Yep, I consider Kira ending up alive in plant after his fight with Athrun’s Aegis’ a real plot hole.

  21. 21 Myssa Rei March 31, 2009 at 7:10 am

    Unfortunately, not everyone can get all the supplements to get a complete understanding of a show, ESPECIALLY when there’s money involved, so many don’t even bother, and instead have to make do with second-hand information. And so, you have complaints about ‘plot holes’ that aren’t plot holes at all, whereas the REAL plot holes get glossed over.

    To use myself as an example again, I wouldn’t have known what to make of the Innovedas populating the background of Gundam 00 S2’s epilogue had someone not told me about 00F/00P. Had I been the reactionary sort (or 10 years younger) I might have been part of those wondering WTH, which really isn’t about anything at all.

    Instead, here’s something to chew on: how, pre-Trans Am Burst, are people, ON BOTH SIDES, seemingly able to hear what the pilots (and ship crew!) are saying (since they’re able to react and even reply)? Is the default setting of the comm net on ‘unsecure’ (which really, would just sloppy security) ? Is this even explained in the background material?

  22. 22 Kaioshin Sama March 31, 2009 at 8:35 am

    @Myssa Rei: Having read most of 00P/00F I will say that if you will provide an example for all of your points/questions regarding G00 then I might be able to try and help to answer them. 😛

  23. 23 Duo Maxwell March 31, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    @Myssa Rei: Didn’t Zeonic-Corp translate almost all the sidestory? All are available on tokyotosho or their mainsite. I feel like you don’t bother to search for them instead.

    And I didn’t know there is Clannad translated patch. Or you mean we have to play through the original Japanese game to understand the anime?

    Back on Gundam 00, I don’t think it’s hard to make a connection. When I first see Anew-lookalike, I thought that just someone with similar character design, and when I see 2 or 3 more of Innovade-similar face across the world, suddenly Tieria’s phrase “we’ll watch over you” come to my mind, and everything makes sense.
    Still, maybe it’s just my habit of trying to make sense or find a connection from everything, which Haruhi have trained my.

  24. 24 Myssa Rei April 1, 2009 at 12:49 am

    Duo Maxwell: I’m not in the habit of looking for print material on the net, since I feel better actually having them in hand and actually, y’know, reading it. That said, thanks for bringing their availability to my attention — not a diehard Gundam fan, but I have watched most of the franchise, though some information just can’t be gleaned just from the main TV media. Tsk.

    And, why yes, there’s an English translation patch for the CLANNAD game. The game really gives perspective to some of the more vague concepts of the CLANNAD world, like the Town, the Lights, the Illusionary World, the Parallel worlds (each major and minor route in the game) linked to it, and the non-linear time that didn’t really translate too well in the last few episodes of the TV anime. I blame Maeda really.

  25. 25 Haesslich April 1, 2009 at 1:14 am

    Kaio: My issue here is mostly with the way they’ve set up 00P/00F as essential to understanding the way this story plays out… and while Astray’s manga papered over the plot-holes, you could still ‘get’ the story even if characters inexplicably appeared in PLANT when they’d previously blown up on Earth. Here, as Myssa put it, if you didn’t know the plot-points and background revealed in those side-stories, it was much harder to get over the plot-holes as the ones in SEED were merely inconvenient and confusing, while some of the ones in 00 could be classified, IMO, as show-stoppers with regards to enjoying the show as-is.

    Beyond that, the CLANNAD shows were catering more to the fans of the game and spinoff manga – ergo the faithful reproduction of the story with a few creative liberties, and the plot playing out as it did with the main series as well as After Story; the weirdness of the magic world was more acceptable (and as far as we can tell, it’s not about Science so much as about faith and sentimentality), so playing the games was pretty much something that KyoAni would have expected the viewers to have done before the series’ start… and even then, if you hadn’t played the games, the story was accessible and had its own internal consistency. Gundam 00, especially in the second season, pushed internal consistency completely aside in favor of the action and rollercoaster-style ride, forcing the viewer to follow the manga in order to even understand the main plot… whereas the CLANNAD viewer could at least ‘get’ the show and the main plot without external assistance.

    That’s why I used the theoretical example of having to get four or five spinoff/additional merchandise to understand the main story of the next Star Trek/Star Wars movie – most of the clues you need to understand the main plot don’t exist in the series at all, and don’t even appear to be hinted at.. whereas CLANNAD had those items in there at some level, and on top of which was written for fans of the game. Gundam 00 was supposed to be much more mass-audience directed (unless they’re assuming that only the fans who read the side-stories are the only ones watching the series), especially since they’re selling models and video games as the main purpose of the show.

    This isn’t to say that the show doesn’t succeed in the action side of a Gundam series – just that as a STORY, I find it a failure without those additional materials. If it’s hard to enjoy the story without resorting to the side materials, I’d have to rate it poorly.. and even SEED, as poor as the story could get, at least had plot issues which didn’t interfere with enjoying what story it did have. In a soap-opera sorta way.

  26. 26 Duo Maxwell April 1, 2009 at 2:29 am

    “Gundam 00 was supposed to be much more mass-audience directed (unless they’re assuming that only the fans who read the side-stories are the only ones watching the series)”

    Mass-audience are reading magazine every week, which contain almost any information they are needed for the anime.

  27. 27 Kaioshin Sama April 1, 2009 at 2:36 am

    @Haesslich: The only way this works is if you grossly over exaggerate the necessity of 00P/00F to understand 00, which it seems to me you are doing. I had no trouble following the Gundam 00 main story and plot…like at all (And I’ve only read like 4 chapters of 00F), so maybe it’s just you.

  28. 28 Myssa Rei April 1, 2009 at 3:08 am

    I dunno, I was pretty much blindsided by just how much GN Particles could DO, whereas I assumed them at first to be a literal analogue to the Minovsky Particles in UC; what I did not expect (again got information second-hand from manga/sidestory readers) was something that could easily pass for Spiral Energy/Getter Rays/Green Lantern Green Energy for sheer utility. It was not explicit at all during the first season, and only really came to fore at the end of this season.

  29. 29 Haesslich April 1, 2009 at 3:28 am

    Kaio: It’s one thing to have Innovators all over the place. It’s another to go from what was initially a ‘the world’s run out of oil, it’s still engaged in war, and now there’s a third party trying to impose peace on everyone by trashing other people’s war machines’ to ‘Aeolia has a Plan for Peace’ to ‘GN particles are the new Newtype Ability’. Especially as how Myssa Rei notes that GN Particles initially were presented as this universe’s version of Minovsky particles/magical material which makes Gundams go.. and then went onto magic sparkly dust which makes people telepathic.

    And they explain that ONLY in the side material. So if you’re just watching the show, the whole “GN particles + 00 Raizer = Naked Setsuna and Lalah Sune-style Newtype visitations” leap that the last third of the series took kinda makes it hard for me to swallow everything that went down. Which is probably WHY you see so many Western fans crying out ‘trainwreck’, since they got whipsawed from political action/Gundam combat to Magical Faerie Dust Gundam.

  30. 30 Kaioshin Sama April 1, 2009 at 3:31 am

    @Myssa Rei: There’s a huge difference between GN particles, Tau particles and Twin Drive particles.

    Anyway if you are actually curious to know what 00F is about, three words…..“Cat Loli Haro”.

    @Haesslich: Look I’m sorry people can’t cope with a bit of a shift in story dynamics as far as Gundam 00 and GN technology go (and it’s not like there weren’t a ton of hints and foreshadowing dropped regarding their potential like the first time the Twin Drive System was ever activated), but that really just comes to personal preferences, which in the case of other people don’t really concern me. And I thought I recalled you telling me once not to have jumped to conclusions about Minovsky Particles and GN Particles being the same, because they might turn out to have some different properties. Well….here we are…..

    And we moved beyond that whole solar energy/oil thing AGES ago when the Federation got GN Tau-Drive technology from Ribbons so I don’t get why people keep bringing that up over and over again. Like what did people expect the whole series to just dwell on that one point of conflict or something?

  31. 31 Haesslich April 1, 2009 at 4:25 am

    So it’s logical to go from GN drives making Gundams perform better to triggering what is effectively Newtype development in anyone surrounded by them? Um… yeah. And while I did say we shouldn’t jump to any conclusions because GN particles may not act like Minovsky particles, it’s a hell of a leap to go from portraying them as magical power sources to magical power sources which also power telepathy, and which also make people look naked in the mental plane they send people exposed to them into. Or this is some metaphor for how barriers are lowered when people can hear one another’s thoughts.

    I’m personally rather disappointed, as I’ve said before, that they moved away from the semi-political slant they had earlier… especially when they did it in favor of magic GN particles making everyone see things and making Marina talk more about nothing. About the only way to really enjoy 00 is to sit back, relax, and to stop worrying about the story – the story will be shit (Macross at least doesn’t make any pretenses about being serious), but the mecha action may prove entertaining.

  32. 32 Kaioshin Sama April 1, 2009 at 5:04 am

    @Haesslich: Okay you’re just looking for reasons to complain now and I’m really not interested so sorry but that’s the way it works, it’s been shown that that’s the way it works and it’s not ultra-realistic or purely logical, it’s science bloody fiction and I think people need to remember that. If they can’t then that is their problem.

    Anyway your last sentence is sounding a little revealing. If your going to spring something on me about the show being “shit” then I should warn that I am not at all interested beyond the prospect of today’s special gimmick.

  33. 33 Myssa Rei April 1, 2009 at 6:58 am

    Although Haess might be a little harsh with his choice of words, what I THINK he’s trying to say that, with the way some aspects of the show might stretch disbelief (due to lack of knowledge of supplementary information — remember, we never explictly told that GN Particles could do all these things at the beginning of the show) a viewer will have to stop watching Gundam cerebrally and instead watch it purely as an entertainment vehicle, as that way disbelief need not be stretched.

  34. 34 Kaioshin Sama April 1, 2009 at 7:14 am

    @Myssa: Well when exactly are we supposed to learn about the full potential of GN particles for people to be satisfied? I mean considering that NOBODY is aware of the Twin Drive concept and it’s potential until it is unlocked following Schenberg’s death it would seem kind of odd to learn about it any earlier than the 00 Gundam’s unveiling. I fail to see a real issue here.

  35. 35 Myssa Rei April 1, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Well, given how GN Drives and GN particles were presented during the first season — as an alternative and frankly amazing power source that the three warring powers couldn’t replicate at that period — one could argue that, while the background material (again, not known by the casual viewer but very likely known by the devoted fan) suggest that it can do more than just power mobile suits, fool radar, and make beam weaponry feasible, the way it was actually shown in the first season didn’t really say otherwise.

    Thus, viewers from the first season who expected more of the same (again, coming from the view that GN Particles are more or less an analogue of the Minovsky Particles) get surprised that the GN Drives and GN Particles could actually do MORE than just power mobile suits and beam weaponry… All because of some aspects not being defined explicitly in the source material itself. Cue cries of WTF?! and plot holes, where all we have here are gaps in the understanding of how things REALLY work in the TV series’ universe.

    You’d be amazed at how much the crowd quiet downs once they actually get their hands on the supplements that fill in the gaps in their knowledge. References give perspective after all.

  36. 36 Duo Maxwell April 1, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Are you sure you’re not mistaking the GN Drive and the Twin Drive? The GN Drive in S2 is still doing what they’re supposed to do, no more no less. The thing that “break common sense” is the Twin Drive, on the Gundam that “surpass Gundam, hence it’s not called Gundam anymore”. All those words come from Mizushima himself, before season 2 aired. Look, he did try to give us a hint without spoiling the anime beforehand, and gradually build up the hint through out season 2.

    His mistake is he has been overestimating the audience. He keeps giving small hints and thinking that people will be able to grasp the big meaning behind it. Well, they are not. How many people actually notice that when 0-Raiser first activation, the Twin Drive affects Tieria, the Innovade, in an unpleasant way, while it does enhance other people’s quantum brainwave.

    The only sidestory I’m following is Gundam 00F (just the manga, or to be specific, vol.1 currently). I just check other sidestory for the MSV.

  37. 37 Kaioshin Sama April 1, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    You know I don’t think most people freaked out about the Twin Drives powers other than shouting “HAX!” like they always do when a unit is able to PWN at an above average rate.

    And like Duo Maxwell and I explained above, GN Drive /= Twin Drive /= GN Tau Drive.

    And again, Gundam 00F is basically a lolidom piece about a Cat Loli Haro (especially during the 2nd volume) and a Gundam Meister named Fon Spaak that makes Hallelujah look like Allelujah. 😉

  38. 38 Duo Maxwell April 2, 2009 at 3:02 am

    Shame on me. I didn’t notice they have translated vol.2. Time to pick it up :p.

  39. 39 Haesslich April 2, 2009 at 4:18 am

    Kaio: As Myssa suggests, I’m bitching because the story suddenly shifted gears in a way which left more casual viewers who don’t have access to the other materials in a bit of a lurch. We went from ‘power source nobody else had’ to ‘wait a second, since when did we move into quantum brainwave-what?’ between seasons, and while the mecha action improved (it was no longer a lopsided contest where Celestial Being had the overwhelming advantage as it did in the first season’s start), some aspects of the story left me wondering why the director had decided to do things this way. It felt a bit out of left field, and at that point in the story I’d lost a lot of interest in the way they were handling the plot, or whatever this was supposed to be.

    About the only way to really enjoy the show is to stop watching it with a critical eye, stop worrying about the story, and sit back and treat it like it’s Gurren Laggan or some other series where the storytelling takes a backseat to the entertainment aspects.

  40. 40 Kaioshin Sama April 2, 2009 at 4:36 am

    @Haesslich: I’ve already explained why all of this is the case multiple times above, so I don’t really know what you want me to do anymore.

    It seems to me like what you are implying is that no new concepts or ideas can be introduced beyond the earliest episodes of a TV series and that they are not allowed to build on pre-existing ideas like they did with introducing Twin Drive Particles, which were as mentioned, and frankly shown on top of that to anyone and everyone who was watching, to be far more potent then the regular kind.

    The only way I can see this being an issue is if a viewer makes it one, which is exactly what you are doing.

  41. 41 Duo Maxwell April 2, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    “We went from ‘power source nobody else had’ to ‘wait a second, since when did we move into quantum brainwave-what?’ between seasons”

    I’m kinda lost at this. Not quite understand what you’re implying. Both things you mentioned were shown in S1 as a stepping stone, and in season 2 they just are linked to each other to advance the plot. I hardly call they “shift” the focus into one of them, while both of them are need and being portraited in the show at the same time.

    Honestly, did it really require the other material source to understand the show? Just try asking, I don’t mean anything.

    @Kaioshin: “Loli Cat Haro” doesn’t fit well in 2nd volume. “Psycho Loli Cat Haro” would fit the description more. One of the very few loli that I hate.

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